Poll

How do you feel about the .05 tax increase for the city property tax ?

Didn't need it, taxes high enough
7 (30.4%)
We need it badly for our parks and 2 new officers
6 (26.1%)
Raised because of possible alcohol tax loss
4 (17.4%)
City wasting our money
5 (21.7%)
Does not matter to me
1 (4.3%)

Total Members Voted: 22

Author Topic: Higher Property Tax For Anna Homeowners  (Read 2776 times)

Offline XSleuth

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Re: Higher Property Tax For Anna Homeowners
« Reply #30 on: October 15, 2007, 12:06:55 PM »
So you are advocated a 4X property tax hike?  I don't know that I'd go that far for a park.  But I'll definitely mail a $10 check every month in lieu of having the liquor stores in town...

Offline drax0r

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Re: Higher Property Tax For Anna Homeowners
« Reply #31 on: October 15, 2007, 12:13:39 PM »
So you are advocated a 4X property tax hike?  I don't know that I'd go that far for a park.  But I'll definitely mail a $10 check every month in lieu of having the liquor stores in town...

No, I am not advocated a 4x property tax hike. 

Perhaps the prohibition movement should acknowledge the $10 instead of pretending it didn't exist.

Maybe the ballot should read: Are you willing to pay an extra $10/mo to infringe on free trade, close a number of retail establishments, cost tens of people their jobs, and stifle economic development.

FOR or AGAINST
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Re: Higher Property Tax For Anna Homeowners
« Reply #32 on: October 15, 2007, 12:22:38 PM »
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I just want to make sure you're deciding it based on a $10/month realistic rate hike

That's an extra full round of mimosas or a 12pack of beer we don't intend to give up every month.   ;)

Offline ehowton

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Re: Higher Property Tax For Anna Homeowners
« Reply #33 on: October 15, 2007, 12:36:45 PM »
But I'll definitely mail a $10 check every month in lieu of having the liquor stores in town...

Hell man, I'll pay $10 a month to KEEP the liquor stores here.

Offline XSleuth

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Re: Higher Property Tax For Anna Homeowners
« Reply #34 on: October 15, 2007, 12:39:58 PM »
OK.  I've been willing to acknowledge the $10/month all along (I've shown the $10 is still about 30% high, but I'm willing to bend your way).  What I'm fighting against is those that would say it's $161/month (that's what 4x property taxes implies).

So, prior to the wet vote, I didn't hear of anyone marching the streets declaring their free trade rights were being infringed.  And as someone noted (I think it was the flyer), there are many examples in the area of cities that had significant economic development without going wet.  It's hard to argue that one.  As for closing some establishments and costing some jobs, this is true.  I won't dispute that.  It's a sad fact.  Business is a risk.  Sometimes you can see the risks and try to mitigate them.  And sometimes a tornado comes through and there's nothing you can do about it.  In this case, I wouldn't consider a 51.5% vs 48.5% vote a clear 'mandate' from the citizens any more than I'd consider the Bush victory a mandate.  With this knowledge, some business owners decided to take the risk.

They'll likely get through the election just fine.  Maybe a little more gray hair, but I suspect they're business will be booming post-election.

Offline XSleuth

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Re: Higher Property Tax For Anna Homeowners
« Reply #35 on: October 15, 2007, 12:50:18 PM »
I'm sure you are all tired of me by now, but I hope you at least see my point and are willing to let the system work.  That's all I've asked all along.  That's why I despise the lies and scare tactics.  They are just attempts at manipulating the uninformed.  I've seen it on both sides of the issue now.  The flyer was the first time I've seen someone try to say there would be NO impact.  And for all of the anti-liquor folks here (ha ha), I encourage you to speak the truth, just as I encourage those pro-liquor folks to do the same.

So how many beers would it cost me to buy a few NO votes?  ;)

Offline SLUM LORD

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Re: Higher Property Tax For Anna Homeowners
« Reply #36 on: October 15, 2007, 01:02:04 PM »
I would like to invite you to a little pep rally before the election.  How tall are you?
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Offline drax0r

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Re: Higher Property Tax For Anna Homeowners
« Reply #37 on: October 15, 2007, 01:15:46 PM »
OK.  I've been willing to acknowledge the $10/month all along

Yes, but according the flyer you referenced below, it is TOTALLY FALSE that banning alcohol will will reduce sales tax and increase property taxes.  That's what I'm referencing when I say that the opposition doesn't acknowledge even your $10.

I addressed that particular issue in another thread.


So, prior to the wet vote, I didn't hear of anyone marching the streets declaring their free trade rights were being infringed.  And as someone noted (I think it was the flyer), there are many examples in the area of cities that had significant economic development without going wet.  It's hard to argue that one.

Is it possible to develop a city without alcohol?  Of course.  Does that mean that we should get rid of a business that is contributing in so many ways?  I don't think so.   

Anna is not any of those other cities.  There are many factors that determine how a city grows.  To isolate one factor and say 'See, Richardson did it!' is not comparing like for like. 

I think the best thing we can do to gauge what's best for Anna is to look at what we've got going on and make projections based on our own baseline.  To me, it seems that, given what we see in Anna, that alcohol sales are an integral part of our town's economic picture.




As for closing some establishments and costing some jobs, this is true.  I won't dispute that.  It's a sad fact.  Business is a risk.  Sometimes you can see the risks and try to mitigate them.  And sometimes a tornado comes through and there's nothing you can do about it.

If I go to someone's business and set it on fire, destroying their investment and leaving their employees to figure out how they're going to make the rent payment next month I guarantee I won't get away with the 'Business is a risk, sometimes bad things happen' defense. 

If a tornado destroys a business it is an Act of God.  If your NO vote destroys a business it's an act of Fred08. (not picking on you specifically, but you see where I'm going.)



In this case, I wouldn't consider a 51.5% vs 48.5% vote a clear 'mandate' from the citizens any more than I'd consider the Bush victory a mandate.  With this knowledge, some business owners decided to take the risk.

I see where you're coming from here.  Assume, for the sake of conversation, that said owners 'should have been able to foresee' this repeal election.  Does the fact that the original vote passed by a small margin justify the losses they will incur should the public decide to flip-flop after inviting them in just 2 years ago?

I see that the prohibition group is soliciting donations on their website.  I'm assuming that they're not taking a collection to be given to all of the people who will be financially destroyed by their actions should they win.  Perhaps they should be.

They'll likely get through the election just fine.  Maybe a little more gray hair, but I suspect they're business will be booming post-election.

Me too.
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Re: Higher Property Tax For Anna Homeowners
« Reply #38 on: October 15, 2007, 01:15:58 PM »
...just as I encourage those pro-liquor folks to do the same.

Deceit is the only way I can win, ergo, it is a tool I will use.  THE END JUSTIFIES THE MEANS!  And if I must lie and cheat to rid my City of evil, then that it what I shall do.  As long as there is injustice, whenever a Targathian baby cries out, wherever a distress signal sounds among the stars, we'll be there. This fine ship, this fine crew. Never give up... and never surrender.

Offline XSleuth

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Re: Higher Property Tax For Anna Homeowners
« Reply #39 on: October 15, 2007, 01:42:35 PM »
I would like to invite you to a little pep rally before the election.  How tall are you?

Just my guess, but there's probably no safe answer so I'll not comment.

If your NO vote destroys a business it's an act of Fred08. (not picking on you specifically, but you see where I'm going.)

Wow, I can single handedly destroy businesses.   ;) 
Trust me, I know what you mean.   But that's the case with lots of decisions the voters/congress/city council get to make.  We can decide tomorrow to phase out Social Security and that means a lot of people will need to find a job.   We can outsource our Public Works department and put people on the street.  We can change trash services and kill a local business...

Deceit is the only way I can win, ergo, it is a tool I will use.  THE END JUSTIFIES THE MEANS!  And if I must lie and cheat to rid my City of evil, then that it what I shall do.  As long as there is injustice, whenever a Targathian baby cries out, wherever a distress signal sounds among the stars, we'll be there. This fine ship, this fine crew. Never give up... and never surrender.
And to some, this is the only way they know how to fight.  But I like to play fair just as long as I can.  Then I'll get ugly!   :D

Offline Angi

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Re: Higher Property Tax For Anna Homeowners
« Reply #40 on: October 15, 2007, 01:57:38 PM »
As long as there is injustice, whenever a Targathian baby cries out, wherever a distress signal sounds among the stars, we'll be there. This fine ship, this fine crew. Never give up... and never surrender.

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Re: Higher Property Tax For Anna Homeowners
« Reply #41 on: October 15, 2007, 02:10:21 PM »
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So how many beers would it cost me to buy a few NO votes? 


"You can't handle the truth!" LOL

Aside from my love of Fossil Creek's wine selection ~

It is NOT fair to recruit liquor based businesses to open in Anna, invest their money in our town, and then to say "oops!~ sorry about that.  We changed our minds, so that's going to cost you a lot of money to leave and find someplace else to open"

That is just WRONG.  If you had a thriving business Fred08 would you think it were fair for the city to do that to you?

Offline drax0r

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Re: Higher Property Tax For Anna Homeowners
« Reply #42 on: October 15, 2007, 02:12:34 PM »
But that's the case with lots of decisions the voters/congress/city council get to make. 

You're absolutely right.  That's why I think its important to approach such decisions with a reverence that I think is often lacking.

When people are making decisions that will effect people's lives I think they need to take a hard look at all aspects of that decision and weigh the consequences against the benefits.

If you're going to destroy people's business and put people out of a job, you had better have some compelling reasons to do so.

In this case, I haven't been presented with any reasons I would deem compelling.  I certainly don't think it sufficient that one finds the sales of liquor in their back yard distasteful.
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Offline ehowton

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Re: Higher Property Tax For Anna Homeowners
« Reply #43 on: October 15, 2007, 03:38:40 PM »
In this case, I haven't been presented with any reasons I would deem compelling. 

But I'm le tired...